Questions You Should Have Asked Your Insurance Agent with Jeremy Goodrich

Do you want to learn how to manage risk and get a clear strategy for commercial real estate investment?

In this episode, we are joined by the Founder and CEO of Shine Insurance, Jeremy Goodrich, who has been on the journey of helping commercial real estate investors, will discuss the 3 most expensive mistakes commercial real estate investors make and how to avoid them.

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Questions You Should Have Asked Your Insurance Agent with Jeremy Goodrich

Hey, everybody, welcome to Season Two of the Real Estate Run Down. I want to thank you for being here. And today you guys are gonna love this because I’ve actually got a guest in here that we’re going to play this funny little game. He doesn’t know it yet. But we’re going to play this funny little game called Ask your insurance, ask an insurance agent, something you always wanted to ask, but you were too afraid to ask your insurance agent. And the victim. I mean, I’m sorry, the participant of this is my friend Jeremy Goodrich. Good morning, Jeremy. How are you?

I’m so good. Shannon, thank you so much for having me on. I’m more than happy to be the victim or the question answer. I feel like I’ve built my business off of answering questions that other people maybe don’t want to or are scared to. So I’m here to answer these questions for you and your audience. And, and hopefully, I’ll know all the answers for you.

So before we get into the awkward questions, we’re going to ask, tell us a little bit more about your journey in real estate insurance and, and kind of what you specialize in and how you got there.

Absolutely. So I started my adult life as an elementary school teacher. I did it for 13 years, I taught third and fourth graders how to read, how to write, how to play hockey, which was maybe my favorite part. And all things in between, I really saw myself as a teacher for my entire adult life. During that time, I met my wife and business partner who is a third generation insurance agent, independent insurance agent. And at some point, we both realized that we wanted to make a change. And so she left her dad’s agency that she was managing, I left teaching and we started Shine Insurance in 2013. With the goal of just kind of changing the way people feel about insurance, could we come into an industry that people kind of don’t like, oftentimes commoditize as something, you just have to find the cheapest thing to get, and actually make it what it should be, which is a service environment where you’re actually a part of the investing team. You’re part of the service that’s provided to folks. So that was the potential we were coming from. I was just a teacher. So I knew how to do it.

Yeah, sounds like a perfect segue to because the reality is, there are teachers in my life that taught me how reading and writing is something that I wanted to know, right, where you’ve taken that from the school application, I think in a lot of ways, it would probably be easier to teach fifth graders than it would be to teach grown people what insurance is really about. That let’s not necessarily insult the fifth grader, shall we? Now you have, you know, but but really, I mean, there, I remember a teacher of mine, Miss Bowling, who really taught me the passion that I have for reading. Right? She really took it from something that were just words on paper that I didn’t care for, to something that I truly love and appreciate. And being able to get that I think would really work well with your current career, because you’re teaching people about that same thing, something they don’t really want to love. I don’t want to love insurance. I don’t even want to use my insurance, right? I never want to have to call you and go Hey, Mark, tell me more about my policy. I think I’m going to need a lot of it. Right?  Yeah, yeah, exactly. So you guys have been doing this for seven years. Now. Your wife still hasn’t used your life insurance policy yet. So that’s a good thing.

So working on that one. Yeah.

Awesome. So you’re in what is your field of expertise in that insurance field?

Absolutely. So right when I started, you know, I wanted to find a way to connect with a piece of like, with something with a niche, a community of people that I could become a part of. And I got connected immediately with real estate. So it started teaching people how to buy their first home. And people were just asking me this, I was doing personal home and auto insurance. And people were saying, hey, what about an inspector? What’s an appraisal? You know, good lender, you know, good realtor. What’s the closing like, oh, my gosh, I’m asking you all these questions, simply, I guess, because I was willing to answer them. And so I started talking with realtors and lenders and appraisers, and title companies about the answers to these questions. And I recorded those conversations and put them on YouTube. And that channel has grown to about 15,000 subscribers. And the journey of helping people with real estate left first time homebuyers after a little while and moved into investors, and has now moved from single family investors and flippers up into commercial real estate. And our journey as an insurance agency has done the same. So now we do commercial real estate insurance. That is what we do, and is our only commercial insurance that we offer. And I’ve been doing that for quite a while. So commercial real estate insurance across the country is what we do now.

Awesome. So let’s start with these questions that everybody wants to ask but doesn’t really want to be considered or thought of as not intelligent when they ask them. I got this question from a client of mine that I built a building for a couple years back. They called me and they said hey we’re having a Conversation between us here in the office, and what would it cost to replace our building? Because one of us thinks that we should insure it for what replacement cost would be. And one of us thinks we should leave it lower, so that we don’t pay a lot of insurance, because it’s not likely we’re ever going to have an incident that’s going to totally wipe out the building that would max out our insurance. Why is it important for us to keep up with the costs of replacement around us? Why can’t we just because we never have total structure laws, why wouldn’t we? Why wouldn’t we be? Why would it be important to make sure that we knew what a property was valued at? And what would really cost to replace?

I think it’s a great question. And I think it starts with a foundational understanding that you just got out in some ways, and that insurance is based on what it would cost to replace a building, not the market value of that building, when I was working on today, $18 million property is the market value based on square footage. And what I see we were looking at about $25 million as a total replacement cost. Of course, the investor is saying, Well, wait a minute, those two things are different. I think that the first thing to understand is that market value, and replacement costs are different. And market value has very little to do with the insurance side of what you’re doing. So that’s the first answer, we understand that it’s a replacement cost. But then inside of replacement costs, you’re asking a great question, why do I have to insure the whole thing, the likelihood of the entire thing going down is very low. And if we’re looking at a complex of 25 buildings, the likelihood of all 25 buildings going down at the same time completely is, I mean, non-existent. So why do we have to insure all of our buildings for the entire replacement costs? And there’s a couple of answers to that. So that one is you don’t, you certainly could go other avenues and other ways. There are pros and cons of different elements. But I think the foundational answer to the replacement cost question is, this is how insurance companies set their rates, they realize that you’re not going to have a total loss. But they’re using that total loss number as the way to set their price. So if everybody only insured for 70%, then insurance companies aren’t getting as much money coming in, as going out. And then the prices start going up. So it’s a chicken and egg scenario. And what the insurance companies do is set some sort of boundaries around how low you can go, and what penalties you’ll get for under-insurance, besides just the fact that you wouldn’t have enough insurance to actually replace a building if it totally went down.

So what I hear you saying is, if everybody said my $2 million building is being insured for a million bucks, and and last year that that was being insured for $1,000 A million, then insurance companies would just start charging $2,000 per million and let you insure for half.

Yeah, and if everybody agreed to those rules, then it would work. But the thing is that there already is a system built in that everyone has agreed to, and that is deductibles. And so that’s the other side, right? So if you have that $2 million building, and you only want to insure for a million dollars, you know, you you could have a million dollar deductible, I would argue, you know, then you’re taking on all the risk almost because so you know, but deductibles are the place that are built into the system to truly adjust price according to the risk, you’re willing to keep yourself as opposed to passing it on to the insurance company.

Right. So here’s another question for you. So everybody buys title insurance. In fact, the lenders make us buy title insurance, and we can buy an extended policy to insure against liens or insurance against things like that. But if I’m buying a 50 unit apartment complex, is there any insurance that I can get that ensures that I don’t have mold? And that I don’t have I don’t have foundation issues? Or is there things that I can that I have responsibility for on my side to ensure that I don’t have mold, I don’t have foundation issues that an insurance company isn’t going to pay for that I need to make sure to incorporate in my due diligence so that I don’t get into a situation where I’ve gone in I’ve got great title insurance. In fact, I got the extended title policy, no liens are happening. And I walk in and all of a sudden, I’ve got huge issues from something pre existing that I should have known about. Is that a possibility?

I mean, the insurance that you buy for that is a quality inspection, right like your your that’s what you’re purchasing on the front end during due diligence is your the more you pay are the better inspector you have, the more thorough you are with that, which does obviously cost more money, the better you’re going to understand that on the front end what you have and don’t have you’re exactly right. Title Insurance is not going to cover that type of thing, mold or Foundation. No issues, you know, property insurance is not going to cover those things either. If you’re, you just have a mold problem, that there’s no other source besides it just being moist in your basement or whatever, or you just have a foundation problem. It’s just like, if you just have an old roof, you’ve got to replace that. And you’ve got to figure out how to handle that with your own capital. So I would say the insurance on that kind of thing is absolutely the inspection you have on the front end. And I’m sure you talk about this with your listeners all the time, the importance of that inspection, of really having all of the checkboxes checked as you go through that diligence process of talking about it with you.

And we’re gonna dive right into that. So what I hear you saying, though, Jeremy, is that if I have a really good inspection, it’s got pictures of the crawlspace. And there’s no mold, and there’s no cracks in the foundation, since we started with those two issues. And now all of a sudden, I’ve owned this thing for a year, and I see cracks, and I see, I see mold. And what you’re saying is, that would be an insurable thing, because it wasn’t there the day I bought it. It’s happened since I’ve owned it. Is that what you’re saying? A good due diligence will show who’s responsible? Is that what you’re saying?

Yeah, certainly could help. So you know, property insurance is based on occurrences of bad things that happen. And they either are or are not covered, based on what that occurrence was. So if you have a fire, most of the time, a fire is the most commonly covered thing on property insurance, there’s a high likelihood that that fire is covered by your insurance policy. If you have a flood. However, a natural rising of water, your primary property policy likely does not have coverage for that, you would have to purchase a separate flood policy from either FEMA or from a private flood provider. So if you have that mold a year after you had the property, and you have that great inspection that showed you exactly how everything was clean when you bought the property, then you certainly can say, well, something must have happened. The answer to what has happened is, is the first thing you’re going to have to find out when figuring out whether your insurance covers right. What if What happened is covered, then it’s well is that thing cup, so mold is an example, on a lot of insurance policies. Mold is excluded. So specifically, it says on the insurance policy, there is no coverage for a fungus or mold, whatever the language is in the actual policy, well, then it doesn’t really matter what bad thing that happened, your policy didn’t have coverage, so it’s not there. Now, a lot of policies and most of the policies I offer have coverage for mold. Oftentimes, it’s a limited amount, maybe $25,000, or something like that. But they do have coverage for mold. But it has to be mold from a covered loss, a covered bad occurrence. I’m getting in the weeds. I hope that’s okay.

Well, let’s see, I also want to get in the weeds with you and walk away here because guys, this is the difference between an experienced commercial agent and a new guy. Because you may not beat Jeremy on service. And you definitely might find somebody that’s cheaper. But are they going to make sure that you get a limited amount of coverage on something like this, right? I mean, and this is the kind of conversation that nobody really wants to have. They just want to go well GEICO saved me 15% And lesson, right? Right? We all know the slogan, but are you getting the same coverage? Right? Are you really comparing apples to apples? Or are we kind of going, you know, apples to asparagus, right? I mean, we really need to make sure that that’s there. And that’s so hot. So how do you do your due diligence on your insurance agent? Other than Jeremy, and then you got it right, guys? But I mean, how do you do the due diligence on the agent that knows that you’re going to get a good bounce policy that has everything you need? Nothing? You don’t? Right?

Yeah. Can I answer that question? I think, yeah, no matter. Here’s what you need to do as an investor. Because the more we talk about coverage and examples and things that are included in things that are excluded, it creates a little bit of anxiety. It’s like, Well, how am I supposed to know the answer? And the number one mistake I see investors make is what you just described, Shannon, is not taking the time to find the right adviser. And so here are the things I would do one, I would find an independent insurance agent, an agent that does not work for an insurance company, but rather has access to many insurance companies. Now if you’re in multifamily or you’re in commercial real estate, you’ve already figured that out. Because most there are very few captive agents, like the ones that have Superbowl commercials that can do commercial real estate. So the first thing is an independent agent. The second thing is a commercial real estate expert, who specializes in this topic insurance agents specialize in certain certain topics, some new tech, some new restaurants, some new commercial real estate, find One that does commercial real estate because you know, then that that person has a refined knowledge of exactly what you’re talking about. So I think that’s the next thing. And then the final thing is really too good, I’ll do two more things. One is look at those reviews online, you know, see what people are saying testimonials, things that tell you about that particular person. And then finally, when you have that conversation, whether it’s a fit call, or however, they have their system set up, make sure that they’re speaking in plain English, if you walk away from a 15 minute phone call with an insurance advisor, and you feel dumber than you did before the phone call started, that is the wrong insurance advisor, you’ve got to have your advisor has to have the capacity to explain things in a way that you can understand it so that you can move forward in your journey.

And you know, this is such a funny thing. And this is something that everybody looks at, right, they have to have the right insurance, the right realtor, right. And they have to have the right lender and they need to know, and they really look at who the property manager is. And they really dive into this. And then they just kind of go get some insurance, right? Yeah, you don’t really go into that. And you know, I have a branded agent, right? But he speaks plain English. He digs into it. He’s always wanting to do a comparative price quote with whatever else somebody wants to give me. And the first thing he does is he cuts off the price. And he goes through the coverage. 


He says, Well, if I give you a policy that equals their policy, this is how much it is. 


Because he knows what I need. Not what is being offered. Right? 


And I think that is so key. And I think that that is something that so many people miss, because in the commercial world, we’re paid off the noi, we’re rewarded off the NOI. So if Jeremy is $5,000, annually more, I’m gonna go with Brand X because it’s $5,000 More noi at a six cap. I mean, that’s a couple 100 grand, 


What it’s not, it’s not when you really boil it down and say, Hey, what am I really needing to make sure that my investors are covered and taken care of to make sure that I’m covered and taken care of to make sure that I’m not gonna go out of business because of this incident? What is that really worth, I mean, $5,000, it would be nice to cut that down and make that number just super dynamite. But if it can’t be, and give you what you truly need, any more than you’d use an insurance agent or a real estate agent that got his license six weeks ago, right?

Yeah. And I think that you’re, you know, oftentimes, if you do all the things we just described, you’re going to be working with someone who can get the best price for that, that quality coverage, too. I mean, the access to the best price is available to those of us that are good enough to have the right companies, that there’s not huge differences between me and another specialist in this space, who’s been doing it for a while. So well, because you know, especially habitational, in specific, excuse me, apartment complexes in specific, there’s just fewer and fewer companies that are willing to do it. And if you’re someone who’s good at this, who’s been doing it for a while, then you have access to nationwide and Liberty Mutual and travelers and all the big names that are still willing to do apartment complexes, as well as the capacity to create customized portfolio policies for those folks who have, you know, $100 million and above in property values. So there’s just access to the companies in a way that most of us at the top have. And so you’re really not getting some better price. If you’re seeing a better price from someone, there’s a high likelihood that there is a difference in coverage, not necessarily a difference in rate.

You guys are all using the same actuary tables, right? I mean, you still are going, hey, if we’ve got a million dollar building, and the likelihood of this happening is, you know, point two 3% times this. And then here’s the cost per square foot in the area. And then this and then there’s I mean, insurance is a mathematical equation, right?

100% Yeah, I mean, it absolutely is getting

A cost from you. I’m getting a mathematical equation based on actuaries in the area, plus a profit plus an overhead for the company plus a profit plus an overhead for you.

Yeah, that’s, uh, I mean, I think it does vary by company,

Of course, right. But to really break it down and say that, you know, that’s what it is. So you are so I mean, this is what I and I learned this, I gotta tell you, I learned this because I used to have some really, really cheap coverage. 


And then I had an accident on one of my job sites, so I didn’t have an accident, but then we found out what it didn’t didn’t cover. 


It was a lot of difference, right? So, so tell me about I mean, now that we kind of got into bad insurance a little bit, 


Let’s dig into that a little bit more. I mean, not enough. Insurance is one thing. But can you buy bad insurance? Can you get stuff that’s just junk?

Sure. Oh, absolutely. So let me give you one example and investor that I was offering posle to in the Louisiana 115 unit complex on the coast in Louisiana, heavy lift, fairly vacant, maybe 30% occupancy, some of the buildings were full, or excuse me had 100% vacancy. So a pretty tough thing to find two different proposals, one for me, that was about $118,000. One from someone else that was about $100,000. That investor went with the other option and had a pretty significant claim about six months later, and immediately called me. So this is a funny thing that happens with me a lot, actually, with people that didn’t choose me, will then call me when they feel like oh, my gosh, something bad has happened here. And here are some of the differences that they found in this claim, they called me because they were struggling with the policy. One is, you know, they had ACV coverage, this is a coverage that depreciates for the age of an item. So the roofs were going to be about $500,000 to replace, and a policy with replacement cost coverage would pay $500,000 Minus the deductible with ACV coverage, those roofs were 15 years old. So even though it was going to cost $500,000 to replace all those roofs, they depreciated for the 15 years old, and then subtracted the deductible, the payout was about $100,000. So you had a much lower pay because of C V coverage. That was a huge difference. They also had a coinsurance penalty. So back to the beginning of our conversation, Shannon, where you asked about under insuring insurance companies have a lever inside of policies, where if you don’t insure for the total, the replacement cost that full replacement costs we were talking about, then they actually penalize you for under ensuring on top of everything else. So they were penalized for that bottom line Obamacare,

Right. If you don’t get enough insurance, you don’t get it, you get a penalty for not having insurance, right?

Well, yeah, I think that you know, penalties are a part. Basically, the story of insurance is Insurance policies, say here, I’ll offer this thing. And then someone will say, Ooh, I can take advantage of it by doing this thing. And insurance companies say, Oh, crap, we’ve got to change the way the language says so that that person doesn’t take advantage of us. And then someone else says, okay, but I could take advantage of it this way. And so there’s a back and forth, not that the insurance company is the good guy. I don’t know, there are lots of bad insurance companies. But the reality is all these laws are created, because of a back and forth between, can we manipulate an insurance company and insurance companies saying, Well, we’re going to try and make it so that you can’t, and you know, so then you end up with claim scenarios like those folks who saved? What was 10,000 or $15,000 10% on their insurance policy, and lost hundreds of 1000s of dollars in the claim scenario?

Well, and that’s the thing, right? I mean, it when you need it, you is not the time to be reviewing the policy,

Right? No, definitely not. Yeah, it’s like you make your money when you buy a property. You make your insurance,

Your insurance? Yeah, same thing, not when you cash that policy yet, right? Because the goal of insurance for me and for the insurance company, is that I never use it. Right. 


I mean, the thing is, when you look at it, this is an easy one for life insurance, you look at what life insurance would have cost to buy 25 years ago, if I was 48 years old. That’s great. And we’re just using this as an example. Okay. Life insurance would have been a lot more expensive 25 years ago for a 48 year old to get insurance than it is today, because of the length of life that we now have in our actuary charts. And it’s simply math. Right is. So when you look at that, and Jeremy, you made this point. And guys, I can’t stress this enough. If you’re getting a substantial discount, understand that you’re taking a subset substantially inferior amount of insurance? Because the reality is they should be within three or four or 5% of each other Max. If they’re exactly the same policy, right?

Yeah, yeah, at least you know, when you’re if you’re seeing a number, that’s way under everybody else, you want to do some more due diligence. And I think that’s why having some basic knowledge of how insurance works, some of just the top level things, top four coverages or whatever, and being able to deduce some of those differences. Or, like you said, you do Shannon, ultimately trust one person, and send them everything and say, Hey, I’m not the expert here. Yeah, I went out and got a quote from someone else. But I’d like you to look at both of them. I’d like you to analyze them. I’d like you to tell me what’s going on here. Because I know that I’m not an expert. And I know as a business owner, that I have to trust my team to serve me. I believe I can trust you. And so I’d like you to look at this and give me a sense.

And the funny thing is when we go down that road, I love having everybody that wants to bid my insurance can bid my insurance. I just give them a copy of my current policy.

Yeah, right. Can I tell you the problem with that, Shannon? So you know, when you do that, if you go to two people, that’s fine. But if you’re going to multiple advisors, oh,

I don’t go, right. People come to me, people always call you go, Hey, man, I’d love to visit your church, or here’s my policy. Just because prices I mean, price is one of the three factors, right? You listed them prices one, knowledge and understanding is another and services a third 100%. So you beat him on price. But we’ve been doing this gig for years. You never, you’re never gonna beat him on service. Right? Right. No, I, I’m gonna go back and I’m going to talk to my guy. And I’m gonna say, Hey, here’s what the other guy’s number is. Did he miss anything? No, he didn’t miss anything. Is there something we should look at? No, we’re good. Okay, great. Thank you. Let’s proceed, right. But if there was a substantial difference, I would definitely be addressing it. But you still have service. And you still have an understanding of the marketplace that most people don’t get you get this, Jeremy, because you understand that that really, if you really understand insurance, what you’re really buying is you. I’m really not buying Shine Insurance. I’m buying myself a piece of Jeremy. Yeah, in that time of needing that insurance, your guy came back to you, even though he didn’t use you. It was a surrogate agent, right? wanting the best of both worlds, right?

Yeah, I just want to make one point about what you’re talking about here. That’s important for folks to know about commercial insurance. And that is that, you know, not most of the time, only one agent can go to a given company. It’s called blocking the market. And so if you give your deck page to someone, without telling your current agent, let’s say, let’s say your renewals coming up in three or four months, and you say, you know, let’s let’s give it out to a few agents, those agents are gun going to go a good agent, the first thing they do is block as many markets as they possibly can. That is insurance companies that now your incumbent agent cannot use. So if that person that you just handed Dex out to are those three people that you just handed a Dex out to goes out and blocks Liberty Mutual goes out and blocks, travelers goes out and books nationwide, goes out and blocks the regional mutual companies that I love and go to so much, then I come up with your renewal. And I’m here and ready to market this out and do everything I can to get you the best price. And suddenly, I don’t have all the tools that I should have in my toolbox. And so it’s just important to know that when you hand X to someone to say, go ahead and go get some quotes, you’re taking away the capacity of potentially another person to successfully get you the best price.

And that’s a very good point. And I thank you for bringing that up. The thing that I do have is I have a branded agent.

Wow, that’s true. So then they have they have a company

That has a very great point of clarity. So you want to be sure that you are getting the service and the knowledge before you go just handing that out. Because then all of a sudden, if done right, then everybody’s blocked that off, so you don’t have access to it.

Yeah, I think that happens a lot where you know, if I go out if someone asks me to give them a proposal, and I’m not really someone who’s willing to bid against a bunch of other agents, it’s just not how I work. If I go out, and I see that companies are blocked, I’m going to kindly go to that investor and say, you know, it doesn’t look like I have access to my best options. And I don’t think I’m going to be the person for you. I would love the opportunity to consider it next year. You know, but I think that relationship matters. And that’s just one example of the reasons that the relationship matters. And I think a lot of good agents aren’t going to bid it against a bunch of other agents. That’s just they know what happens. It’s a race to the bottom, it’s a race to the cheapest price. And you’re going to be battling with people who have a cheaper price for a bunch of junk.

And that’s where going back to the agent that understands what you really need, and why you really need it can convey that. And it’s been around a while, which is exactly what you guys have done over there shy, right.

Yeah. I mean, when I see family offices, the big difference between someone who owns 10 doors, and someone who owns 5000, in my experience, is this conversation is the one who owns 5000 has an advisor and isn’t necessarily sending those decks out and isn’t necessarily looking elsewhere. Now, of course, they want the best price. And they want to know that when they break it down by you know, by the price per door or however they’re looking at it, that it still feels right to them and feels like the right percentage of noi or whatever you want to look at it as, but the folks that I see at those larger portfolio sizes have stopped doing the going out and looking and looking and looking and comparing. They’ve committed to a team member that they believe in and are moving forward from that space.

And that’s great too, because, you know that brings that up I mean, and Back to the point we made earlier, everybody goes out and finds the real estate team, everybody goes out and finds their, their construction team or the rehab team, you need to do the same with your insurance team, you need to find somebody that you can get in, get into those conversations with that take you into what you really need that displays the knowledge that, you know, maybe finding somebody that has other family offices that they work for that has somebody that has 5000 doors, and has kept them for several years would be a great indicator who would be a great person to use?

Absolutely. So

So Jeremy, I think we’ve kind of covered a lot of the awkward questions that people don’t ask, is there another one that you’ve heard often that we didn’t cover?

Yeah, I think one of the things that people get very confused about is the idea of a public adjuster. And so I think that the question I hear asked a lot, and I hear a lot of misinformation out there about is should I hire a public adjuster? So I would love to answer that if that’s okay,

Great. So what is a public adjuster versus a private adjuster?

That’s a great place to start. So when you have a claim, your insurance company is notified of that claim, right? And they assign a team to work through the claim with you. These folks that are assigned to this claim are called adjusters. Oftentimes, you might have a couple of them a field adjuster, a in house adjuster, people that work for the insurance company, their job is to assess the situation, decide what the insurance payout is, pay that out property properly, and complete the process that they walk through that is the company adjusters side. You could choose as a property owner in a claim situation to hire someone yourself, someone from the outside, called a public adjuster, someone to come in for you. They don’t work for the insurance company, they work for you. Right. And so you are asking them to come in and assess the situation to push the insurance company to get all the money that you deserve in that claim situation. Does that answer what is a public adjuster? 


Okay. So do you need one or not? You know, and I think public adjusters go on podcasts, they go anywhere, that they can talk and say everyone needs a public adjuster every single time. And I think that’s my biggest concern. I think that public adjusters can be best aligned with personal injury attorneys. Are there times when you are in a scenario where you need to hire a personal injury attorney because you’re being done wrong by an insurance company, or you’re being done wrong by a medical space? Or something like that? Absolutely. And there are some great personal injury attorneys out there who can help you deal with those situations. But are there just as many people out there that want you to come to them? Because they can take 20% of 30 or 30% of what you would get anyway? Absolutely. And I would say personal injury attorneys are actually more needed than public adjusters a lot of the time.

Use correctly, you are actually advocating that public adjusters are a lower rung on the ladder than personal injury attorneys.

Well, let me understand, let me tell you why. And I will, I will reiterate what I said at the beginning, there’s a time and place for everything. But you know, in a personal injury attorney scenario, it’s a complex scenario, if you’ve been if you’re walking across the street, and you were hit by a car, and this is deeply affected your future, your life, your body, your medical expenses, there’s, that’s a complex scenario that has a lot of variables. And I can see why having someone really helped, you could get more money or address the situation a little bit better. In a property’s properties scenario. There’s a finite amount of coverage on your insurance policy. It is available there. And when you hire a public adjuster, you’re giving them 20 20% 30%, sometimes of what you would have gotten anyway. And so I think that again, I will stress there is time, there are times for public adjusters, I think complex, large commercial claims, probably a good time, you’re being done wrong by an insurance company, you’re just not getting what you need from them. Probably a good time. Right, but hiring one right at the beginning. You’re just handing over 20% of what you probably would have gotten anyway. And I just feel like it’s, you know, there’s good and bad people in every. Yeah, there’s good and bad people in every industry. I think there’s a lot of bad people in the property adjusting, or the public adjusting world and there’s some good people too, so that’s important to know.

So just to clarify, Jeremy’s not endorsing. But here’s the thing, guys, my job here and my goal here is to bring you good quality people that you can ask the questions of. So guys, if you’re looking for more information on insurance, Jeremy would be a great guy to reach out to Jeremy when they’re trying to find you. Like when they try to find the real estate rundown. They go to a certain place, they go to YouTube, right? They like to subscribe to it. Where can they find you in that cyber world of how to get a hold of you to ask those questions before they buy the wrong policy?

I think that’s a great question. So you can find us at Shine Insurance. But I created one specific thing that I think is super valuable to your listener. So one of the mistakes that investors make all the time is putting the wrong insurance number in your pro forma in your underwriting on the front end. And I want to encourage you to go to shine, you answer nine questions, you’ll get an immediate general ballpark for that property in that place. So it’s just a quick number that you can throw in your underwriting right away and know that you’re closer to what the actual reality will be when you get that policy in place. So that’s where to find me shine

Awesome. Well, thanks so much, Jeremy, we appreciate you being on the real estate rundown, guys go to to get all of your questions answered before you buy the wrong policy. And Jeremy wants to say thanks again for being on The Real Estate Run Down guys. If you’d like what you’re getting here at the Real Estate right now. Like and subscribe, tell us, leave us some comments and let us know what we’re doing right. And what are the topics you’d like to hear? So once again, Jeremy, thanks so much for being on The Real Estate Run Down.

Shannon, my pleasure. I hope I made insurance a little bit more simple than it was before this episode. Awesome.

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About Jeremy Goodrich:

​Jeremy is the Founder and CEO Shine Insurance.

Before starting Shine, I spent 13 years as an elementary school teacher.  The clarity, consistency, and care it took took to help kids understand arithmetic is the same we apply to insurance.  Keeping real estate investors & homeowners safe is one of life’s great joys.

Jeremy’s been on the journey with hundreds of commercial real estate investors helping them manage risk and get clarity around their strategy. As the host of the most watched insurance agency channel on Youtube, Jeremy shares stories & answers questions in a way that actually makes sense and is interesting. He will change the way you feel about insurance.